No Big Mac in the Hall

[eggwards]

While Chris and I were playing trivia at BW3 tonight I noticed an interesting poll on ESPN News. It's Mark McGwire's first opportunity to be on the ballot for the Baseball Hall of Fame, and of the Baseball Writers (those who vote on the Hall of Fame inductees) only 25% said that they would vote for McGwire on this ballot.

So 75% of the voters surveyed would say no to McGwire...at least on this round. I think it's a shame because I think McGwire (and Sammy Sosa) re-kindled America's interest in baseball for a short time that few players have. Watching the chase for 70 was thrilling and fun.

Of course the fact that the muscle-bound McGwire was frackkin hot is a whole 'nuther addition to his greatness in my book.

The fact that I was rooting for him when his St Louis Cardinals were playing in the same division as the Astros means that I really respected his talent...or something. Ok, so I was horny in 1998, not like that's anything new.

Unfortunately, McGwire will always be placed in with the drug-enhanced bunch, even though the evidence is a little shaky. Yes, he copped to using Andro to build muscle, but at the time the supplement wasn't on the banned list. (It is now.) Neither was creatine. Perhaps his leaving baseball in his prime was to get out before more could be found, or a test would come up with something, we'll never know. The fact is, the writers are assuming that he used illegal substances without their being empirical proof.

What some point to as proof is that the pictures of McGwire as a rookie show a much less developed man than he was playing for the Cardinals. Sammy Sosa also went through this transformation at about the same time. During this time supplements and strenght training took leaps ahead, so it's not completely out of place for this to be "natural", but again, I'm not sure we'll really know.

McGwire's record of 70 home runs was surpassed by Barry Bonds, a many with even more allegations against him, and an ongoing investigation. Given that Bonds may surpass the record for career home runs will really question if he's Hall of Fame worthy.

in many cases, holding a record, or being on the top ten of a major record (let's say, number of doubles for a career) would get you in pretty easily, but sadly, in this era anyone who has a record season, or record career is automatically suspect.

Is the question to just go ahead and allow substances, and allow everyone the opportunity to go big, or do we try to keep the sport clean...as much as it can? Always there will be those who will try to get an edge, something that might keep them in the game a little longer, or propel them to the stratosphere.

You look at a story of someone who did come forward, who did say that he was taking steroids, Ken Caminiti, and you wonder it it was worth it. Yes, he did win MVP one year, and he was able to play hurt, but in the end, it was a middling career. His admission cost him the Hall, and his own personal demons eventually cost him his life.

So what price fame and glory? McGwire has his head on a little better than Ken Caminitti, so the snub probably won't affect him as much. McGwire has rarely done interviews or appearances since he retired. You're more likely to see disgraced star Pete Rose on the baseball card circuit than you are McGwire.

Still, I would put McGwire in the Hall, all the while I'm rooting against Barry Bonds...perhaps it's hypocritical, but I think much of it just has to do with the man himself. McGwire always seemed appreciative, confident and likable, while Bonds comes off as an arrogant prick. Bonds was never the teammate that McGwire seemed to be despite the sideshow.

Perhaps McGwire will get in on a later ballot, but it looks like for now, the baseball Writers are going to use him to make a statement, that players of the "juiced" era aren't going to be thought of as highly as others. Integrity? Perhaps, but it's sad that it comes down to a man with character to be the sacrificial lamb.

Comments

[starzcub.livejournal.com]

McGwire lost respect during his congressional interview/testimony. He admitted to some things, but would not answer questions people thought he should. The doubt of those questions weighs heavly on the mind of many, and that is why he is being the sacrifical lamb.

Barry Bonds should not get the record for homeruns either, but he will; and most likely may never get into the hall of fame.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're right. I kind of forgot about the congressional hearings, especially as I thought that Congress really had no reason to be running an inquisition into Baseball, or any other sport. (I know, it's the anti trust clause that's always the basis for this) of course McGwire and Palmero and others weren't going to say anything to damaging. Just another political bit of granstanding by a congress that isn't willing to tackle the big issues - oh, like the failure of the drug war, and the increasing costs of health care, two issues that affect more Americans than a few athelete jucing up.

There will always be doubts, and may cost the sport more fans, but heck, wrestling probably has a bigger history of using steroids, and the deaths that come with them. It's something that will be with us from now on. Genie's out of the bottle.

If you take McGwire out on this speculation, you pretty much have to keep out every other fielder and some pitchers from this era as well.

[cubziz.livejournal.com]

Part of the problem McGwire had at the congressional hearings is that, well, he was an EX employee of baseball and yet here he is having to try and defend it.

Imagine leaving one of your old jobs and then being told that now you have to help them out... for nothing.

I can't blame him for refusing to answer some of the questions and being distant in those.

(At the same time, why was Congress caring about a sport that may or may not have players using banned substances? I mean, what next, a congressional hearing on whether Willie Nelson and Snoop Dog are still smoking pot? *giggle*)

[starzcub.livejournal.com]

Hey, I totally agree with congress sticking their nose in something where they don't have the business; but however like Eggwards said...anti-trust issues.

McGwire has every right to try and defend MLB. It was his life for how many years, and he and Sammy brought love back for the game. His testimony was to understand what was going on in baseball during the times he played, and now he looks like he was evading questions.

Canseco looks less like a big liar and hypocrite now though. Remember his book coming out, and everyone saying in baseball it was not like that.... Then Palmerio test positive, McGwire had retired. Sosa went away... The "sluggers" have gone away other than Bonds, who is without a doubt the most infamous/famous person in Baseball today.

So if McGwire just said, "I will answer your questions, but I am not going to incriminate myself," then so be it... but to use the fifth amendment looked shady."

The problem with major league sports is the fraternity issue. You do not rat out your brother... And that is why Canseco was lambasted.

[jerrycakes.livejournal.com]

I agree. So many people believe that baseball is the purest of the pure sports that nothing can taint it. (Having not grown up in a baseball city, I could care less about it.)

It boils down to simply accomplishments on the field versus stupidity (if you will) off the field. They tried to keep Lawrence Taylor, one of the greatest linebackers to ever play in the NFL, out of the Hall of Fame in Canton, because of stuff that happened after he retired.

Here's the thing: If and when McGwire gets into the Hall of Fame, they might as well keep the door cracked for Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa and Pete Rose, too.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'd send any of those guys to the Hall over Pete Rose. Pete's the worst one of all. It's not for the gambling, it's because he took what's essentially a plea bargan. He would be banned from baseball, volentarily and baseball would never release it's report on him. It's all in his court, he can say he did it, and he'll be denyed forever, or if he's innocent, he should let the records come out. He can't have it both ways.

I hate that he's always whining about how he can't get into the hall, but he never says that he's the one who made the agreement that keeps him out. From Rose's play on the field, he certainly should be there, but it's doubtful he will until after his death.

[jerrycakes.livejournal.com]

I agree with you - I wish Pete Rose would quit whining already! He really can't have his cake and eat it too.

Betting on baseball and taking the plea bargain is a far more egregious error in consciousness (sic) than the furor over steroids and supplements.

McGwire, Sosa, and Palmeiro will get into Cooperstown some day. Once the lingering effects of their less-than-stellar performances in front of Congress (IMHO, which never should've happened) wear off, then all will be well with the world.

[rowgun.livejournal.com]

I still remember Mark Maguire's guest appearance on "Mad about You" - which culminated in a scene where Helen Hunt found Mr. Maguire naked in bed. Funny - I didn't remember that until i read your post.

About a year back I was on some meds that had a small amount of steroids - even with this small dose, my friends could already notice a difference in my personality. I was more rash, angry, and it scared me. I don't even want to know how the large doses affect athletes.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I haven't taken a steroid, so I don't really know...but I know how the decribed a lot of the players in the NFL who had...and usually it was that agressivenes. Guys like John Matuzak. They, and some of the wrestling guys then went on to have heart problems and have passed on, like the Big Boss Man.

That Mad About You segment was pretty damed good because we got to see his huge chest!

[cubziz.livejournal.com]

Sadly, Mark is bearing the brunt of it because a lot of people view him as the better athlete. Barry Bonds is/was an ass and as such, people ignore him (rightfully).

But Mark had a decent personality. He was a "no one" (which isn't true, but for most of America he was) who come out and did something big. He didn't boast. He didn't taunt anyone else. He just went out and did his thing.

The problem is, the year after, no one would pitch to him. :( As such, he was getting walked and, well, Mark isn't a base-stealer. He's built to knock the balls out of the park, not quickly run from place to place, as such, his time on the bags was fairly limited and usually resulted in no runs. This killed his ERA, batting average, etc. And as such, everyone immediately talked about he had "lost it".

You can't lose what you can't use... but still the talking kept happening. Over and over.

I went to one of the last games and you could see it in his face. He was walked the first time, and the depression was just clearly visible in his face. He was endlessly being skipped over.

And then the next at-bat, they were throwing garbage his way. No fast balls, just endless curves which were really high (which in general are hard for him to make home runs out of) and he struck out just trying to hit anything. Had he not swung, he would've been walked again. But he was just getting tired of it and wanted something.

So... sadly I remarked to Hunter after that game that McGwire was gone after a few more games, and sure enough, he did leave.

I suspect he "vanished" to get away from it all. I mean, baseball was good to him, but it also was a LOT of stress.

There's another theory on why he dropped out of baseball, vanished, then reappeared to get married, and then vanished again. Something to do with being a big loud bottom. *giggle*

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

i still remember Mark as one of the "Bash Bros." in Oakland...which, given Conseco's misdeads and admissions just leads to more speculation about McGwire.

Barry Bonds also has the same problems with pitchers walking him, and I'm suprised that with his kneed problems that he can even play anymore, but he seems driven to take the big record. i'm just sad that the Giants are wasting time and money on him when they really could be much more compitative without him. Surely he would get a job as a DH somewhere with a team that would be happy to have him beat the record for publicity (like SF is doing).

Please...don't hint that he's a big bottom. That's just too much to take! *fans self*

[cubziz.livejournal.com]

I have a Bash Bros' poster here for my wall.

Barry Bonds is around because he can. Mark would still be around if he didn't quit and distance himself from the sport. The Cardinals have repeatedly tried to bring him back as a batting coach, including offering him most of his last salary! (And what batting coach makes several million a year?)

And as for Mark being a bottom, I don't speak from personal experience. This is third hand knowledge. But reportedly he has quite a bat of his own as well... :)