We Need To Butch Up Those Churches A Bit

[eggwards]

For the life of me I can't seem to get overly excited about the Rick Warren thing. Sure, I think it's a lousy pick, and I think the Obama could have done way better, but in the end, they guy gets his few minutes on stage and goes back home.

Now I know, you are say, this guy's an ass, and he will use this so he can be seen as a power broker, just like James Dobson or Pat Robertson, an in that way I'll agree with you. While he doesn't have the television presence like Robertson, or the radio presence like Dobson, he has been finding a larger audience by attaching himself to political movements and politicians. It's a pretty strange place for a preacher in my book, and it is sad that Obama is giving this man more face time.

That's what's more upsetting to me than the actual invite. Heck, Billy Graham has been doing these things for years, and I don't agree with him, either. I'm sure someone like Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson would cause a lot of furor as well. Warren is getting it from both sides as Fundies seem to not like that he's fraternizing with pro-choice politicians. We all have our battles.

I guess why I'm not outraged as much as other people is I see this as political payback. Obama seems to be making an statement for inclusiveness and for differences of thought, or at least trying to spin it that way, but I see it more as payback for not trashing him at the "Forum" Warren held and for not campaigning against him. Warren could have done more to rally his flock against Obama, but likely spent more of his efforts getting Prop 8 passed. Perhaps Obama is trying to use this inaugural platform as a way to keep this guy off his back for a while. I don't know.

If you want to protest this move, fine. write your congressmen and Obama and all that. It's good to stand up. I see this more as a blip than anything else, and there are much bigger issues. If you want to use this as a starting point to announce that you will be looking to the administration to do more for GLBT issues, then that's a positive. If you fell back on the idea that there was a democrat in the White House and we would be making great strides, I'd like you to look back to the Clinton Years.

We will continue to need to make our case for rights and a seat at the table. That shouldn't change no matter who's in Congress or the White House.

Disappointed, yes, outraged, not so much. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm waiting on some bigger policies before I'm ready to write Obama off.


★ One bit of Rick Warren business, the Seattle Stranger's Blog (or SLOG) yesterday posted some interesting information from Rick Warren's church. Apparently he has a manual for church leaders out there. And some of the excerpts are pretty funny. Like many Non-Denominational and Baptist churches, they are against porn, against strong women, and against gays.

What I really found funny was the information on how to make church more appealing to men. Apparently churches have become to soft an feminine with quilts and banners and priests in Prada shoes and all, and church needs to get more butch in order to get the men involved. Warren suggests you take down the quilts and put up swords and animal trophies.

He also says, "years ago, I attended a church where everyone held hands across the aisles while singing a unity hymn. Men hate this — especially when they have to hold hands with other men." So apparently church has problems attracting men because it's too homoerotic!

No wonder churches want to put women in their place and "ex" the gays, they are ruining the church for manly men!


★ Speaking about making our presence known. There's a rally tomorrow. It's a candlelight vigil all across the country, and in most places it's taking place outside of shopping centers.

In Dallas it will be outside of the Galleria. Now I don't think this was the best choice as the Galleria is the place that out-of-towners shop, not people from Dallas. I think we could have done better by picking Northpark, but the choice has been made.

Is anyone here going to go to the vigil? I'm not 100% sure about this one, and I have my reservations about the format, but we'll see. Maybe I'm not excited because I don't care for the format. A candlelight vigil during the Holidays just makes you look like a group of carolers that aren't singing. We aren't supposed to bring signs, but instead have T-shirts with clever sayings. I'm not sure as people drive away from the Galeria they will get the message.

I'll consider it though, for the community and all. I'll have to find where I can get a good candle.


★ Lastly as the colder weather sets in, I can feel my joints tightening up. I always knew that I would likely start showing some signs of Arthritis as I got older, and can remember my dad having the same problems showing up as he got into his 40's.

My knees already cause some trouble, but that's from weight, not Arthritis. Luckily my ankles haven't been twisting and turning as much as they used to. Now my fingers get kind of locked up at times, and that hasn't been fun. I guess I'll have to start looking for Arthritis pain relief aspirin at the Walgreens soon.

Arthritis and some forgetfulness seem to be pointing to a bright future!

Comments

[rafdfw.livejournal.com]

I'm going, but I won't be there the whole time.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Seeing how it's going to get cold again tomorrow, I'm sort of on the fence. I know, weather or rights, you choose. Too bad for the T-shirt gimmick that everyone will be wearing coats!

[rafdfw.livejournal.com]

I have two holiday parties after the rally, so I will probably keep my coat on over the party clothes. :)

[cuddlcub.livejournal.com]

lol, church is for sissies!

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Damnned right! Why would I want to be singing lame songs of praise and listening to some guy in a dress when I could be killing deer and using my godly authority over my wife!

[jkusters]

I'm not outraged either, but I am disappointed.

Obama's trying to placate those offended by saying this administration is one in which people of different opinions will work together to find common ground. But I have problems with thinking that I should be sitting down at the table with a guy who thinks I am inherently evil and will destroy civilization if I had half a chance. It's not the same as a difference of opinion of who to tax and how much. We can arrive at a compromise on tax policy. What compromise will there be with a preacher who thinks I'm evil? By selecting Warren, Obama is saying that this particular "difference of opinion" is a minor one that I should be overlooking in an attempt to come together.

Sorry, I'm a pretty tolerant guy, but I think the deliberate desire to do harm to me and my husband-to-be is too much to gloss over.

Am I done with Obama? Of course not. There's no way he's going to please me with every decision he makes. But it's vitally important that he knows when he makes a bad choice, that he knows who the choice affects. To just let it pass would be acting with complicity, and I can't do that.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I think Obama is trying to hard to talk his way out of the situation. It's very politician. He really just say we thought about it, and he's our choice. We have many other people of all faiths and backgrounds joining us for the inauguration just like America is made up of many different types of people. - And be done with it. He's trying to hard to give a non apology and "I'm not agreeing with him but..." answer.

I agree, Warren's a tool, and one that's seeing that it's his time to overtake Dobson and Robertson as big conservative preacher. Unlike the other two, Warren seems to keep his more hateful messages just for his flock, but they do get out. He's a lot like Joel Osteen in Houston - very slick, very good in trying to promise that the lord wants you to be rich and self-centered and it's alright to shun those who are poor and different. It's a rather obnoxious form of religion that only seems to try to flatter the worshipper so they will want to be in the flock.

I think Californians are more aware of Warren than the rest of the country - that's unfortunately changing though. We really didn't see much of the "yes on 8" ads and talk here.

I have no problem with people contacting Obama and his team to say they don't like the pick. It's our right as citizens to do so. I just hope that unlike number 43 that 44 actually gets to hear some of that criticism.

[polomex.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda with you on the Rick Warren thing. Do I think he was the best choice? No. But was he the worst? No.

This has been Obama's platform all along: to bring people together who might not necessarily interact otherwise. He's inviting people to work for him who will challenge him. He's inviting people to the round table to discuss. He's purposely bringing people together who will not always get along. This is something we know he has had a history of.

So I'm not surprised by his choice. And I would much rather know that he is making controversial choices, rather than putting together a high-school clique of yes-men. Cheney, Rice, Rove, Gonzales... we don't need that again.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I guess Fred Phelps would be the worst choice - and interesting one, but pretty much the wrong way to start a presidency. I find Dobson and Robertson more offensive than Warren, but I think it's because the other two have had more time on the National stage. Warren is still emerging for most of us, a regional phenomenon if you will. As I get to know Warren more, the more I see the message he preaches isn't much different, he just does the whole folksy-charm crap with it. (aka Car Salesman)

I agree, it does seem like it plays on Obama's plans to try to listen to all sides, and seemed to be a point of the campaign, so yes, it didn't shock me that he asked Warren to come on board. I think he knows that he'll need to be seen as a president for all of the people to try to avoid the problems Clinton had when he came into office. He had a hard time working across the aisle. It's that whole "He's not my president" thing. Happened to Bush as well, but for a different reason.

If the new cabinet actually brings to Obama different thought and dissent, and doesn't try to shield him from the truth and criticism, then it will be a good thing for the country.

[amboy00.livejournal.com]

Explain to me the point of the vigil. I got the invite, but I don't understand what its for.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I don't either. I guess it's to raise awareness, but it's not clear, and I think the message won't come across.

Are we protesting Christmas Shoppers for not voting for the gays? Protesting stores for not giving domestic partner benefits? I have no idea.

[scotbear.livejournal.com]

1. Obama is inviting this guy to give one prayer, not to join in determining policy, right? I guess I don't see it as a big deal. I may not like him but I don't have to agree with anything this guy says outside the prayer itself. Personally, I'd rather there not be a prayer as part of the proceedings at all; or if there must be, have more than one, by representatives of differing faiths (Jewish, Moslim, Buddhist, Native American...).
2. Why choose to be part of a protest when the purpose of the protest isn't clear?
3. My doctor tells me that arthritis pain formula aspirin really isn't any different. She recommends Advil.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

1> Right, one instance does not define a person. I think there's a larger purpose for Warren's invite, political payback or just try to show a broader spectrum, but I can't say for sure. I'm sure Warren will try to hog the spotlight, he's one of those Mega Church preachers who run on fame, but hopefully he won't be able to do more than say a prayer. I think you also need to have other faiths included if this is truly to be an inauguration for all the people. It's only right.

2. I'm not sure about the protest. You are right, we could use some more information here, and it looks like there's a lack of understanding what a protest is by the organizers.

3. That's good to know. I need to ask my Dad what he does.