How Far Is Heaven?

[eggwards]

I just want to know, when did religions have to write in the rule that you couldn't run off and kill yourself to get to the grand reward (be it Nirvana, Heaven, etc.) so that the devout in horrible situations, such as extreme poverty, slavery, and serfdom (especially serfdom, it seems like the Catholic church, and later many of the Protestant denominations were built on keeping the serfs in their place with the carrot of having a afterlife worth living in servitude for).

I'm not familiar enough with Bible verses to know what verse tells you not to off yourself less you go to meet the devil, not live in the clouds, and of course in some places there's the misguided thing about killing yourself as a way to get vengeance on others - but there your performing a service - for people to cowardly to do it themselves. Instead heaven must be achieved by most by accident, by someone else's hand, or by natural causes.

Still, if it weren't for the "rule" don't you think there'd be more people trying to get to heaven than there are now?

Comments

Good Egg...er question

[thereisnofear.livejournal.com]

Yeah..the Church..full of Hip-Hop-Ra-See...er hipocracy.My ex-boyfriend after stabbing me 9 times took his own life.Usually if You kill yourself and you're in the church they won't do a service for you or bury you in a catholic cemetary.They made an exception for him...ALWAYS exceptions.

[gullinbursti.livejournal.com]

It's not actually explicitly in the Bible; those groups (like the one I grew up in) that teach that suicide is a one-way ticket to hellllllfahr and daayumnation generally come to that conclusion through a deductive process (the one my denomination used is here detailed for your amusement):

1) The moment of death is the Last Chance you had to be saved,

2) If you die unforgiven, you go to hell,

3) "Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." (Matthew 12:31)

4) Suicide = despair,

5) despair = Not Trusting in God,

6) thus despair = blasphemy against the Spirit,

7) and since you're dead afterwards, it's too late to repent, and it's not automatically forgivable,

8) so poof, prepare for gnashing of teeth and laaaaaakes of FAAAAHR!!


My current denomination is much kinder than that. Thank God.

[magebear.livejournal.com]

Why do religions have a big beef about suicide? Because it shrinks the 'flock'. Thus shrinks the coffers.

My opinion of suicide? Wanna see cynical??
It's the weak response to difficulties in life. If you're that serious about it, please go now.... more oxygen for the rest of us. If you 'just can't seem to do it', stop wining and preying on the sympathy of others.

[slothel.livejournal.com]

...it seems like the Catholic church, and later many of the Protestant denominations were built on keeping the serfs in their place with the carrot of having a afterlife worth living in servitude for....

And the thing that bothers me the most about this is that it was always someone sitting in some palace being fed grapes by nubile young boys who was telling people this kind of thing.

Re: Good Egg...er question

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

That's majorly f-ed up. It's amazing what strange exceptions are made, or what they will look the other way for. Perhaps indulgences can still be purchased.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

So it seems like much of this comes from Jewish law, not a big surprise, just various Christian faiths upped the ante with the fire and brimstone bit. Still, the Jewish tradition seems more rooted in anchoring it to the sixth commandment, whereas the Christian tradition seems to detach from that and make it into a reason you must keep working to achieve devine providence. Interesting how the meanings seem to change.

Thanks for the info!

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Well, there's always room for abuse in hierarchies. Labor, armies, they all do the work for others and those who lead flocks can always be corrupted.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not recommending suicide or anything, but I think there's some more realistic views we can take - and maybe we'd be able to help some people more. Still, there will always be those who will take the final step...

Religion is the answer for some, but not all. I find it a bit silly.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I see. Interesting, still that despair still seems to be overwhelming enough to send many people over the edge, whether they have a relationship with God or not. I wonder if they should give up the scare tactic and try to be better at looking at what the problems these folks really have, individually and societally.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Those who make exceptions are those who get something out of those exceptions given.