Space Race II

[eggwards]

It seems that President Bush has proposed Americans returning to the moon, then on to Mars. While I'm really thrilled by space exploration, watching it for all of my young life (heck, I did a science fair project on how the shuttle worked, and I'm watching for information about the current Mars Rover) I'm sort of suspicious about this announcement.

First, we don't have a space shuttle right now, so we already need a vehicle to do the "day to day" space shots. Second, it seems less about actual exploration, but more about bravado and trying to challenge the Chinese who are working on their own space program, some thirty to forty years late. Third, Where are we going to get the money. NASA's budget has been slashed in the last few years, but the federal government has already overspent its budget by millions, if not billions.

Still, it's an election year.

The story from yahoo.

Comments

[redcub.livejournal.com]

I think you summed it up with "it's an election year."

Bush's popularity is slowly dwindling away, not even the capture of Saddam improved his numbers. He's looking for a spotlight to be in and hell, the moonshot worked for Kennedy, right?

I think its amazing that NASA, given a budget smaller than shoestring, managed to get a functional rover on Mars. I think it's criminal that Bush, who I seem to recall being rather low-or-anti-NASA should seek to ride their coat tails now.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

I think that the Rover, much like the Sojourner in what '97? is all about NASA learning new tricks. sometimes they work...

Still, there's a difference when you want to send humans, not robots into space. The risk tolerance is much lower and the expense higher.

Space exploration is inspiring to many, so it's a great feel-good issue. The problem is, there's no real reason to spend the sums of money the project would require. The '60s was all about pushing the envelope and beating the Soviets. The Chinese just don't seem to inspire the same energy.

[redcub.livejournal.com]

"No real reason" is a debateable term. In the years during our space program I have heard Chuck Yeagar say that the NASA missions have produced science that has greatly improved our quality of living.

I have also heard a Bush rep say, shortly after the shuttle disaster, that the program had produced no returns of measurable worth to the American people.

As for the Chinese, they cannot possibly be factor in anything NASA talks about today; they are trying to replicate missions we were finished with twenty-plus years ago.

ROVER and SPIRIT are projects that have been in the works for the better part of a deacde. Moreso, the current MARS roster of experiments is the attempt to do science on an alien planet, something NASA has been committed to since we hit the moon. They are not about "pushing an envelope," they are about exploration and learning how to best comprehend our Universe. Some people see that as an acceptable goal.

The only reason the Chinese were brought into this rhetoric is that Bush only understands the language of pointless competition. He thinks only in terms of someone "winning" and someone "losing". Currently, the Chinese program is thirty to forty years behind our research goals. What kind of idiot takes that for a race?

Also, when you talk to the guys at NASA, they love the Chinese crew, and wishes them all the best. Does this sound like a desperate competition to you?

What I would love is a clear and impartial run down of what, if any, technology and science has trickled out of the space race to common life. Then I would like someone to concisly word what they think the benefits of continued exploration would be to Planet Earth, while the next person explains clearly how those things WOULD ACTUALLY be put into place.

Beyond that - do I really care beyond being miffed that Bush has again insulted my intelligence? Do I see any gain or loss from this program, or any other shot-in-the-dark research program that studies anyting without concrete life changing results that will be out and done in my lifetime? Probably not.

But then, if I never supported thing that *might* help mankind, in my lifetime or not, I would have to give up on civil rights and AIDS research.

I don't know. I just make the best guesses I can and hope for the best outcome. Somehow TRYING seems better likely to yeild some good than NOT trying.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Truly, I agree with everything you say, "no real reason" relates to the political sense. bush has shown time and time again, the actions he takes are based on black and white thinking. US good, Iraq bad. painting an "Axis of Evil is one more way this has been done. Bush seems like one of those people who can't move without their being some sort of competitive edge. (see the recent immigration issue, is it about immigrants, security or winning re-election?).

And this is coming from me, a right leaning moderate.

Trust me, i'm a big fan of NASA, and have grown up with the moon landings and shuttle launches. NASA affects Houston, where I live. I want NASA to do well, and yes, I'd like to see an eventual mission to Mars, still, it's hard to justify the expense until we get a lot more of our house in order, and Bush isn't going to do that. This is political grandstanding and it's not even very sincere.

And yes, NASA isn't competing with the Chinese, or with the European Space Agency, but Bush is. It's all about patriotism, not science, or technology, or the future of the human race - that's better left to smarter men.

[polocub77.livejournal.com]

Haha, you know I was gonna right on this one too.

Bush is such a blowhard. He is really trying to put us back into the "glory" of the '80s...with even more National Debt than ever before.

I think sending the rover to Mars is great, but let's face it, there is so much more we need do before we put ourselves further in debt by showing the rest of the world all of our cool and advanced technology. Let's try and end the two wars that we're still fighting...oh wait, didn't Bush say that they ended?

Anyway, W has spent too much of our money already and made us look like fools.

[goofybearz.livejournal.com]

Exatly, that is exactly what I thought when I first hear it on the radio at work this morning. It was like ,"he really wants to get re-elected doesn't he" and doesn't this country have bigger problems to deal with before we do such a thing.

[t8r.livejournal.com]

Wow, this will be so cool!

I remember how cool it was the last time his dad proposed a very similar thing and absolutely nothing at all happened.

That r00led.

[eggwards.livejournal.com]

Look at this! An actual picture of you on LJ!

Yeah, NASA here in town is all excited, as they would be, they haven't gotten a whole lot of attention from the government besides the Columbia breakup. Given that congress will be hard pressed to keep the budget deficit down in an election year, yeah, don't expect anything.

[octoberdreaming.livejournal.com]

And then there's this thought: Do we really want the current NASA administration making necessary decisions on such a major project? Considering the recent trend of very bad decision-making on their part, I can't see how in the world they'd come up with a viable solution for getting us to the moon and back again. They'd probably say something really stupid like, "use the shuttle". Doh!

Anyway, while I do think a new space initiative is necessary, Bush's announcement means nothing if we don't get the funds and the people to back it up. Given the number of men and women who have picked up and left flight design in disgust, I dunno if we have the personnel even to fly the shuttle safely, let alone another mission. NASA will have to offer some pretty big incentives to get those people back, and that just doesn't fit with past history.

But we can always hope.

[standardtom.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this sounded like a cynical attempt to sound all big and presidential.

Don't get me wrong: no one is more in favor of doing serious human exploration of space than I am. One of the goals of my life, which I seriously doubt will be realized, is to see humans on Mars in my lifetime (and I'm about to be 42).

I think it's going to take a lot to get us there, and like other commenters, I'm don't think the present administrations of the nation or of NASA have the will or capability of getting it done.

I believe that the only way to effectively get us back to the moon, and then to Mars, is for the public to want to do it, for its own sake, not for national pride, or for cynical election year purposes.

Without goals, frontiers, and something to explore, humanity turns its attention inward onto itself, and the end result is never good.

Space explorationi is something we simply have to do to advance the species.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

Amen to all of the above.

[enigmacub.livejournal.com]

Wow. The next dog and pony show for Bush. Ok I will admit I'm a conservative, for many reasons, but damn, I don't even think marrying J-Lo would help Bush. I think most people are realizing he pulls something new out of his ass to make him popular.

[cubziz.livejournal.com]

I agree with what you said.

I also feel that he did this in much the same way as he did his "Leave No Child Behind" program, yet then cut the budget for schools. YET... they HAD to fulfill his "order".

Ugh...

[bookish-cub.livejournal.com]

i have a feeling that he doesn't realize that mars and the moon are in outer space.