First love yourself...

[eggwards]

I was chatting with Randy, aka lostncove the other night, and as sort of an outgrowth of our conversation about one of his upcoming projects, we got onto the subject of Christian outreach groups trying to reprogram (read brainwash) gays to be straight. I know that this comes from the concept that being gay is a choice, one to which I have come to recognize as malarkey.

Before I go a little deeper here, let me ask this question. Fundamentalists, what the heck are you trying to do? Are you so afraid of allowing diversity in your world that you seek to quell it, or eliminate it? Is this just continuing to try to save the world? If that's so, then you sure work to save from a high ivory tower, because you can't see that grace can come to even the lowliest person. I'm kind of agnostic at this point in my life. I believe in a higher power, or powers, but I'm really not so sure that one religion truly has the "one way" to commune with that power. While I still hold to many Judeo-Christian inspirations and ideals, as my boring Methodist upbringing would teach me, I'm not so sure they all knew what they were talking about.

I read on another person's website about their terrible experience of having been abducted by his own family in front of his lover and being committed, for being gay. His family felt that he must have been crazy, or possibly hypnotized by his svengali of a boyfriend. I guess they were so concerned that they had lost him to this terrible sin, that they had to attack him and put him away until he could be "saved". So what was the intention? Did they just not understand and were unwilling to do so, thereby working to force the change? Were they so afraid that he couldn't be saved (as in falling from God's grace) unless they intervened for his good? Were they just so concerned with their own self worth an opinion that they were ashamed to have a gay son? Some of all of the above?

If it means subscribing to a view that I don't subscribe to, convince me, debate with me, but don't ever try to force me. I'll have stopped listening before you can get the next sentence out.

Now, how this relates to my life, as no one has tried to abduct or change me, though I have been asked to justify my gay-ness before. ("You haven't done that much, are you sure?" and "you don't seem gay") It took a long time for me to get beyond the thoughts that I really like looking at guys, but geez, I can't be gay. I did the "It's a phase" thing for years. This also brought on the girlfriends phase. Then there was the "I'm gay, but nothing's going to happen, and no one's going to know phase. Which was followed by the awkward coming out to friends phase. Now I'm here. Unsure, riddled with questions, and scared, to some degrees, but I'm taking some steps. Baby steps sometimes, but steps nonetheless.

And no, I don't feel that I've fallen from grace. By opening myself up to friendship and love, I just may be saving myself.

Comments

[hannibull.livejournal.com]

Hey,

I was shocked when I read about the gay conversions. OMG do people really do such things over there?! LOL That's SO incredibly stupid!!! What age are we living in, how can people be so DUMB?! (sorry I was letting myself go ;-))
I've always believed religion is just there to brainwash people. And in some cases that can be dangerous (cf. Al Quaeda). Religions shouldn't force people to live the way they think is the best. Heck, we don't choose to live like this!! I don't think heterosexuals choose to fall in love with girls, right?
And also, if they want to use arguments from the bible, well...nothing in the bible says that "god" hates gay people. Why would "god" hate people?? Isn't that like the whole idea of a religion, to love one antoher?? and the "we'll all burn in hell"-crap, that's like the biggest bullsh*t I've ever heard!
And the references some people make to the bible have nothing to do with hatred towards gays. In fact, some parts are wrong translations from the hebrew, changing the whole context. I guess some people are just too stupid that they read the damn book & don't stand still with everything they read. The bible must be viewed critically. If you don't do that then you're as much of a fundamentalist as Al Quaeda.
On that issue, I'm glad to live in europe, at least gay couples can walk hand in hand in a big city without being looked after...it's just so damn normal! and everyone thinks so!
I'm not very religious, but I thought I should say this anyway... oh, and sorry for my crappy english, I'm tired ;-)

[zen2475.livejournal.com]

What a beautiful post. In learning to love yourself, you are giving yourself something that not everyone achieves. If you can accept yourself, you won't have to worry about justifying who you are to anybody, because it won't matter.

Why is it some so-called Christians are the last to practice tolerance, which I think that if there is a God, would be something he would want us all to practice? The hypocrisy of some is just amazing...

Anyway, you are on a wonderful journey...I wish you the best.

Nonazilism

[ilorsodirettore.livejournal.com]

You should join my new religion, Nonazilism. The word itself is a play on 'non-asshole-ism'. Basically, you get to believe whatever you want to believe, be it Christian, Buddhist, Pagan, whatever, but you place first what is best about all the religions, and that is, boiled down to its essence, "DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE."

Take Christianity: the 10 Commandments? All of them can be rewritten as "DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE." Honor your parents? Well, yeah, as long as they give you what you need. But if they are being as asshole to you--judgemental, neglectful, abusive---then KARMA will get them, but you DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE! Be better than that.

Thou shalt not commit murder? Well, murder takes away someone that no doubt someone else loves and that causes them pain, and causing pain makes you an asshole, so DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE!

You get the idea.

This society loves to debate the semantics of religion. I think 'DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE" is a pretty airtight model.

In another, similar vein, here, if you are agnostic but still clinging to tenets of Judeo-Christian ideology, you should check out two books: What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel K. Helminiak and Steps To Recovery From Bible Abuse by Dr. Rembert Truluck. These have been a GREAT help to me.

[lostncove.livejournal.com]

Well, that progression couldn't sound more like my own if it tried. Crazy.

Fundamentalists believe they are doing the right thing for you by changing your obviously 'wrong' orientation, and few of them have the ability to look past their own arrogance and see what's really happening. The ones that DO though are the special ones. Several of my best friends have had to step down from that pedastal in order to save our friendship. It's kind of nice to know that it can and does happen.

Re: Nonazilism

[houstongwm.livejournal.com]

maybe you should reword that ray - if you're the non-asshole pope ... does that mean you'll never play in my asshole?

Some ways to end the conversion conversation...

[cubziz.livejournal.com]

The argument goes like this:

They argue that being gay is a choice. So let's use some Logic.

Assumption: Being Gay is a choice.
Fact: Religion is a choice.

So one can choose to not be gay just as easily as one can choose to not be religious.

Now, normally the comparison of being gay to religious will cause all sorts of verbal stumblings. After all, if you don't believe their religion, their beliefs won't be the same as yours. But it's a choice so who is to say who can be wrong?

Also keep in mind that if they want you to not be gay, convince them to not be religious. And don't forget, that if being gay is a choice... you might be able to convince them to change their minds too. ;) (And the toaster will arrive shortly thereafter.)

But if it doesn't stop the conversation then move to #2.

Assumption: Being Gay is NOT a choice.

Therefore it is God's will that some people are gay. And as written in the Bible, God's will IS. So the religious parties will have to deal with people being gay then because HE wants it that way. And they have no say in the matter.

If that STILL doesn't stop the conversation, then move to #3.

Assumption: People are BORN Gay.

As such, people just ARE gay. Some may not even know it. As such, does not the "good book" teach that everyone is the same when they are born? So... everyone must be a little bit gay to some degree, or else we all aren't born the same. (And therefore the book couldn't be true because what it says isn't true...)

I KNEW I'd get something out of logic class in college. (Of course, keep in mind, Logic does not apply to many religious fanatics. It's some weird science voodoo which they won't follow... so it might not work. Unfortunately.)

[scottbear2000.livejournal.com]

My own personal views on the matter is that we're born this way, therefore, it's within God's plan. Our only choice is to accept this fact and live life accordingly.

However, just because we're gay, does not excuse us from following some kind of moral standard that the rest of the world is expected to adhere to. The rules are the same for all of us, but because gay people are led to believe that we're damned anyways, then we may as well have a great time on the road to hell and make burning for all eternity worth our while...

My take on this is that if you're christian, you should try to live a good christian life. If you're buddhist, live life as a good buddhist, etc etc etc. True christian doctrine cherishes FREE WILL, and accepts diversity and tolerates other ways of living, etc. Any sense of salvation that a christian gets should only be seen as a gift freely given to them by God because they made the free will choice to accept it. But to pass judgement on those that don't share that belief system is not the mark of a true christian - it's the mark of a self-righteous, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, and dangerous FOOL. The same goes for any fundamentalist movement within ANY religion.

I agree that a lot of self-proclaimed "christians" would love nothing more than to take that free will away from everyone and force the rest of the world to live by their own rules of morality. The same could be said about fundie muslims, and any other fundie religion that promotes a missionary

[garebear.livejournal.com]

I wanted to say this is a great journal entry. Religion has played a very mixed part in my life. I've been raised Buddhist, Baptist and now I can say, with some pride, I'm a born-again Atheist. I've often wished I could create my own non-profit, tax-exempt, church of non-belief; complete with sermons, Sunday school and missionaries that would expound the ideology that the ONE thing that we must believe in, is ourselves.

This; however, is counter to one of my fundamental beliefs...respect the beliefs of others, to honor all religions and to not place my values on others.

There are exceptions. I do not respect religious groups that (1) teach that those who do not believe in the same thing are destined to damnation--their way is the only way; (2) Provokes fear and/or hatred of any person or group based on ignorance; (3) Uses undue political power to empower their religion; (4) Puts their survival over the good of individuals they have violated or the good of the world/environment; (5) Invokes fear in the heart of its followers; (6) passes judgment on others, (7) works to implement a value system based on their specific beliefs, and (8) propagates negative actions/violence (emotional, psychological or physical) in the name of the almighty. I will not believe that a great God would be so petty. This negates most religions; this makes me a hypocrite of sorts.

We can't blame misfortune on fate, but we must guide our own fate and take responsibility for ourselves. We must also accept responsibility when we do good.

In terms of being gay... religion can't change it. It's not just sex, or thinking gay. It may be genetic/biologic in nature. It is who you lust after... most importantly, it is who you love. It's what's in your heart...no one can change that.

I am glad that you believe in yourself. That you accept that you are gay...you are a "fairy," but fairies do fly ... and work magic. May you soar!